so in that sense hillary clinton certainly fit the bill for the job, and they're hoping that susan rice would fit the bill for the job. keep in mind these five interviews she did on the morning shows were essentially a tryout for her. she was trying to prove herself to the president, and in that sense, as you were saying earlier, she sort of stuck to the talking points. and i know it's unfair to get pilloried for sticking to the talking point, but do you want someone who will think for themselves or do you want someone -- she was trying to show she would be a good soldier and do what you wanted her to do, and she did that and that got her into a lot of trouble. if she thought perhaps a little more independently, questioned the talking points, read the intelligence herself, she might have answered these questions differently or spoken differently on the shows. >> richard, you disagree. you say she would be an autonomous member of the cabinet, she would be a separate principal with her own stature, would not be someone who would do something that tom donnelly would send over the notes and